Yearly Archives: 2021

November 3, 2021

8. Hawthorne: The Scarlet Letter

CD8, 50¢, August 1959. Cover artist unknown. 254 pp.

An ardent young woman, her cowardly lover and her aging, vengeful husband — these are the central characters in this stark drama of the conflict between passion and convention in the harsh, Puritan world of seventeenth-century Boston. Tremendously moving, rich in psychological insight, this tragic novel of shame and redemption reveals Hawthorne’s concern with the New England past and its influence on American attitudes. From his dramatic illumination of the struggles between mind and heart, dogma and self-reliance, he fashioned one of the masterpieces of fiction. “The one American literary work which comes as near to perfection as is granted a man to bring his achievements.” — Arnold Bennett

With a Foreword by Leo Marx


A book whose genuine greatness has been nearly eclipsed by its status as a classroom staple. In some ways this is as hard a work to “see” as the Mona Lisa.

There’s no mystery why it’s a fixture of the curriculum: it’s short, direct, thematically “American” on many levels, very famous, and it exhorts the reader to engage in interpretation. It casts itself as an icon, a prompt, which is just what English teachers love. Discussing the meanings of any and all aspects of The Scarlet Letter seems to be exactly what The Scarlet Letter wants. This is what it’s for, right?

Yes, in a certain sense. But I suspect this actually makes it less suitable for didactic use, because that certain sense is inevitably obscured in the classroom, where “interpretation” isn’t a spontaneous impulse of the spirit, it’s an institution and a duty. (And a perspicacity competition. Raise your hand if you understand what I meant by that.) Hawthorne’s explicit appeals to symbolical feeling can be all too easily mistaken for just another homework-happy grownup assigning essays by edict of the Supreme English Department — just the sort of thing the book is supposed to be about escaping from.

Glancing through The Scarlet Letter‘s thousands of Goodreads reviews, I find that there’s a pretty broad teenage consensus. Namely: the story’s all well and good, but the writing is EYE ROLL UGH STOP. The most “liked” reviews are mockery of Hawthorne’s supposed longwindedness: how much pointless description there is, how many needless words recounting how things looked and what people did even when it so obviously doesn’t matter and obviously nobody cares JUST GET ON WITH IT OMG THIS BOOK I LITERALLY CAN’T.

That came as a surprise to me! But I think I know what they’re responding to, beyond just underexposure to 19th century diction. The story is fundamentally a miniature, a tale, whose “natural” size is really very short, yet Hawthorne has treated it at full length. The question is the nature of that treatment. If you’re only reading it to pass a quiz, indeed, you might feel a bit ill-used, because most of the prose clearly won’t be on the quiz. Most of what makes the book worthwhile isn’t quizzable.

Hawthorne’s tone of address is subtly a wonder. It’s what makes the book a glowing masterpiece. He’s never entirely telling the story: he is meditating on it and within it, and his meditation takes the form of writing it. The unspoken premise is that he stumbled across this thing whole in his imagination, and now he’s marveling at it just as we are. (The in-book premise is that he stumbled across it in an attic, which amounts to the same thing.) Just having access to the tale is itself miraculous to him; he’s like someone magically transported into a painting, able to see the backs of the heads, reporting wryly on it all. The events float by with the portent and symmetry of a lucid dream.

Or the inverse metaphor: he turns each scene over and over in his hands. A great deal of what he wants to put across is that this is a tale, a small gleaming thing, to be pored over in its every detail exactly because it is small and perfect. Each aspect of the story is framed as an appeal to knowing recognition: yes, it would have to be just so, wouldn’t it. The book is simultaneously the stained-glass window and the tourist fascinated by it.

I think in his view, the stained-glass window is Olde New England: a mysterious historical past with a forbidding and opaque character, which he’s trying to penetrate but can never claim to truly know. But he’s haunted by this particular past because he has ancestral roots in it, which gives it a vital sense of dread for him. He fears to see himself reflected in it, and/or scorned by it. The dream of this story is initiated by asking himself “who am I? what am I?” So his relationship with local history is inseparable from his relationship with his own psychological attic and the images he finds there.

This is his relationship with “tales” generally. He frequently addresses the reader as though talking to a fellow writer, assuming that we share his capacity to take pleasure in being simultaneously outside and inside a fiction, to relish the sculptural quality of the work as it takes shape under the chisel, and/or as it emerges unbidden.

All Hawthorne’s writing is an extension of his notebooks in which he jotted down hundreds of fleeting inspirations about as-yet-unwritten stories, in which this or that symbolic thing might happen, e.g.

Meditations about the main gas-pipe of a great city,–if the supply were to be stopped, what would happen? How many different scenes it sheds light on? It might be made emblematical of something.

Some very famous jewel or other thing, much talked of all over the world. Some person to meet with it, and get possession of it in some unexpected manner, amid homely circumstances.

To poison a person or a party of persons with the sacramental wine.

An old looking-glass. Somebody finds out the secret of making all the images that have been reflected in it pass back again across its surface.

A woman to sympathize with all emotions, but to have none of her own.

Half the pleasure of each inspiration is pondering the fineness of the hypothetical story qua story. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for there to be such a story! Within The Scarlet Letter Hawthorne says “isn’t it wonderful to participate in the working-out of such a story?” And then: “And isn’t that part of the story, in a way? Aren’t these characters themselves participating?”

The question of whether the reader knows Reverend Dimmesdale’s secret is a prime example. Hawthorne never tells; nor does he engineer any real deception. His deadpan is so utter that it constitutes announcement by omission, to the sophisticated reader to whom Hawthorne addresses himself, but not to “the reader” as an abstraction. The notion of “does the reader know yet?” is something Hawthorne wants to share with us; it’s part of the wonder of stories, part of their worship. He draws out the deadpan indefinitely, because the idea of the hidden, the unspoken, is part of what he venerates. It’s the essence of stained glass.

The book is really about what he’s doing: encountering this book. It worked out marvelously for his purposes that it turns out to be, of all things, The Scarlet Letter, a timeless classic that everyone knows. What a coup!


Hester is burdened with a symbol that becomes open-ended, and then its open-endedness itself becomes the burden. Perhaps the scarlet letter means a transcendental thing that contradicts its societal meaning? Or perhaps the concept of “sin” somehow loops all the way around, and the moral scheme perceived by the Puritans is the grand scheme, even as it works in mysterious ways? Or perhaps perhaps perhaps perhaps any number of other things suitable for discussion in Mrs. Fleming’s fourth period English class? Hawthorne suggests a great many “perhaps”es — for the sake of “perhaps,” the pleasure of “perhaps.”

The thing he seems to actually believe is that fiction is an expression of philosophical reality precisely because it is a twilight realm in which “symbols” and “moral systems” are revealed as mere semiotic objets to be shuffled around and delectated under the rubric of “perhaps.” This freedom of the writer and the reader is the true reality, which Hawthorne allows his characters to perceive dimly as the ineffable truth hiding behind and beyond their fate-ridden fairy-tale paradigm, and endlessly complicating it. The irreducibility is what Hawthorne finds beautiful, the eternal incompleteness of taking two-dimensional moral slices of a three-dimensional universe. And this is his rebuttal to his Puritan ancestors: it’s not that you were wrong, it’s that being right isn’t possible; it’s not the nature of life, and you were in denial about that.

At the very end he muses: “It is a curious subject of observation and inquiry, whether hatred and love be not the same thing at bottom,” because both are forms of passionate dedication. Unspoken but implicit is the even broader reflection on good and evil, both of which are expressions of a moral order. Good and evil are both the business of the town. There’s no name for what goes on in the woods, i.e. in art, i.e. in life.

Hawthorne’s lengthy autobiographical introduction — another thing teenagers hate — tends to be treated as an inessential appendage; I’ve seen several prefaces that outright advise the reader to skip it. But I think that’s wrong. The work takes its meaning in relation to the real world, and in the introduction Hawthorne explicitly gives us a point of departure for that relation. I was grateful for the added dimension it gave to my reading.

He frames the whole thing as his fantastical way of grappling with his feelings about his stultifying “The Office” day job, surrounded by dullards to whom he can’t relate, despite sharing a hometown and a heritage. They’re the types of everyday ordinaries who perceive themselves to be, at best, characters in some drama — perhaps occasionally aware of the power and ambiguity of a mysterious symbol, but never once considering the fourth wall. They believe in the painting. Whereas Hawthorne can see the backs of the heads. Whatever lonely religion that is, it’s what he’s preaching.


I don’t need to talk about what goes on. It’s The Scarlet Letter, obviously.


Detective Kinsey Millhone takes on her toughest case yet, in a quaint New England village where everyone’s a suspect — even the handsome young preacher. She thinks she’s got the investigation in the bag, but when local law enforcement turns against her, and then an old lover with a secret suddenly turns up at her doorstep, Kinsey’s forced to admit that this time… she might be in over her head.


Here’s a passage. Dimmesdale goes to the scaffold of shame in the middle of the night when no one can see, and by astounding coincidence Hester and Pearl happen to pass by. He asks them to join him, and they all stand together on the platform, holding hands in the darkness.

“But wilt thou promise,” asked Pearl, “to take my hand, and mother’s hand, to-morrow noontide?”

“Not then, Pearl,” said the minister, “but another time!”

“And what other time?” persisted the child.

“At the great judgment day!” whispered the minister,—and, strangely enough, the sense that he was a professional teacher of the truth impelled him to answer the child so. “Then, and there, before the judgment-seat, thy mother, and thou, and I, must stand together! But the daylight of this world shall not see our meeting!”

Pearl laughed again.

But, before Mr. Dimmesdale had done speaking, a light gleamed far and wide over all the muffled sky. It was doubtless caused by one of those meteors, which the night-watcher may so often observe burning out to waste, in the vacant regions of the atmosphere. So powerful was its radiance, that it thoroughly illuminated the dense medium of cloud betwixt the sky and earth. The great vault brightened, like the dome of an immense lamp. It showed the familiar scene of the street, with the distinctness of mid-day, but also with the awfulness that is always imparted to familiar objects by an unaccustomed light. The wooden houses, with their jutting stories and quaint gable-peaks; the doorsteps and thresholds, with the early grass springing up about them; the garden-plots, black with freshly turned earth; the wheel-track, little worn, and, even in the marketplace, margined with green on either side;—all were visible, but with a singularity of aspect that seemed to give another moral interpretation to the things of this world than they had ever borne before. And there stood the minister, with his hand over his heart; and Hester Prynne, with the embroidered letter glimmering on her bosom; and little Pearl, herself a symbol, and the connecting link between those two. They stood in the noon of that strange and solemn splendor, as if it were the light that is to reveal all secrets, and the daybreak that shall unite all who belong to one another.

This is an obvious special effect, but that’s my point: Hawthorne makes no disguise of the fact that a special effect is now being applied, because of course it must, because the tale-image demands it, and he knows the reader can see that as well as he. “It was doubtless caused by one of those meteors” — ha ha, wink wink, “doubtless,” because of course we know that it was really caused by PARABLE ITSELF. The actual lighting effect is thrillingly worked out — “black with freshly turned earth” seals it wonderfully — but the real strength is the feeling of inevitability, of intrinsic image-necessity that can be bent by neither Hawthorne nor the characters nor the gods. “And there stood the minister” — of course! Implicit in “and there stood” is “of course.”

And this “of course” becomes the actual flash of “unaccustomed light” for the reader. Here is the symbol; gaze on it. Just picturing it gives it power; it is and must be reckoned with. That’s how symbols work.

Try to find something phony or vague to pick apart in this image! You can’t. It is iron. Nearly the whole book is iron.


Cover time. I think we can all agree this is the good part.

CP650, 75¢, 1974.
CQ910, 95¢, 1976.
CY1067, $1.25, 1977.
CW1188, $1.50, 1979.

70s rebranding of the 1959 cover. As with many of the other Signet launch titles thus far, this has some graphic charm but as an illustration is… not great. (Pop quiz, kids: what’s missing from this picture of Hester? Hint: it has to do with her clothes, which, while we’re on the subject, are not supposed to be purple.) As usual, the illustration had to be recreated after the first print run, seen at the top of this post. (First edition points: her index finger is extended; her hair does not show inside the “R” of “LETTER”).

The introduction by Leo Marx is very nicely done and would be a fine handrail for a standard high school reading of the book, though it assumes the reader knows the entire plot already and doesn’t mind it spoiled. It really ought to be an afterword.

CW1232, $1.50, 1979.
CE1431, $1.75, 1981.
CW1652, $1.50, 1982? (price drop!)

Five years later and finally someone notices that they forgot to remove “A SIGNET CLASSIC” from the bottom when they added it at the top. Meanwhile, someone from PBS apparently has lunch with someone from Signet and this banner ends up getting slapped on some copies. (Sounds like the TV version may actually have been pretty good. It’s not available online.)

CW1652, $1.50, 1983?
CE2350, $1.75, 1988?
CE2522, $1.95 (later $2.25), 1991?

The 80s revamp, starring Mrs. Elizabeth Freake. I generally like the 80s covers, but this one doesn’t quite satisfy. Yes, the painting offers a sense of authenticity and touches on several of the keywords, and I do enjoy the weight and mystery that the dark background puts across. But there’s no getting around the uncanny awkwardness of the early American style, which ends up being the dominant impression. Sure, Hawthorne writes about the Puritans with an eye to their uncanniness, but ultimately he’s the painter of this book, not they, and his point is certainly not that they were haunted-house people with inscrutable ghost eyes. To the contrary.

Furthermore: this wealthy blond woman with her wealthy blond baby, in cheery unlettered clothing, is clearly not Hester Prynne. The best she can be is a gesture in the direction of the aisle in which you’ll find Hester Prynne, if we have any in stock.

The title type seems to be a custom job, like the one on Kidnapped. The mildly gothic feeling is about right, but it seems like the treatment wasn’t designed around this image, which has crunched it unfortunately small and made the T-ligature look pretty weird.

CE2522, $2.95 (later $3.95), date unknown (prior to 1995!)

The 90s: now with new, less deformed Hester! There seems to be a misapprehension about what a “letter” is — some type of robe, maybe? — but at least this woman is plausible casting. Though, honestly, I don’t buy it: Hester is all feeling, whereas this woman has the vacant look of a professional model posed and painted by a technician with no real dramatic sense. The 19th century was rife with those guys.

What painter am I panning here? Good question! Signet doesn’t identify the image, but I found it: this is Fabiola by Jean-Jacques Henner (1829-1905).

(Or so says “Superstock,” anyway. I usually like to get a more authoritative source than that, but this particular painting is in private hands and very poorly documented online. Complicating matters is the fact that not only did this artist churn out year after year of variations on the same subject, one of them actually became a sort of folk icon and was copied by countless amateurs. It turns out the world is absolutely swimming in Fabiolas a la Henner. Choose wisely!)

Jean-Jacques Henner should feel free to take this as a compliment: I think his painting from 120 years ago is too modern and photo-realistic and slick for this book. Oh well.

On the subject of oh well: title typeface is Charlemagne; author typeface is Berkeley Old Style.

(The major motion picture being touted is of course the 1995 Demi Moore version.)


2608, $3.95, 1999.

New introduction by Brenda Wineapple.

3135, $3.95, 2009.

The 21st century pounces. No more people, no more history; no more time, no more place. Never again! From here on out it’s just design, baby! Perfectly smooth and clean and empty, to suit your perfectly smooth and clean and empty lifestyle. We know what the customer wants: a rectangle that they can sort into a rainbow with their other rectangles, on their rectangle-shelf.

As for the actual design: it’s the easy way out, but I’m sort of relieved they finally got around to it. I’m not sure why it’s butterflying together out of little fragments (or are those supposed to be a digital-age take on the cracked surface of an ancient leather-bound volume?) and I don’t think it’s quite right by Hawthorne for it to be an asymmetrical blackletter character. But all in all: yeah, a big red A. You got it.

(Note that at some point they squeezed an “s” into the logo cartouche and turned “Signet Classic” to “Signet Classics.” After 35 years. It probably ought to have been that way all along.)

New afterword by Regina Barreca. Typeface is Garamond.


3135, $4.95, 2021

Oh-ho! What’s this? The 2020s covers have begun to arrive!

It turns out these are momentous times for the Signet Classics. The catalog has been culled — both Kidnapped and The Return of the Native have gone out of print since I wrote about them — and the remaining titles are apparently being given makeovers to try to actually meet the market.

Both this one and the one for Animal Farm (see below for update) are by Kaitlin Kall. I can and will snark at these covers in a minute, but there’s no denying that they’re far more suave and graphically intelligent than the 2008-9 versions were. Those looked like someone cranked them out in 30 minutes apiece in Photoshop and their editor said “fine.” These look like they went through an actual design process, over a couple days, with thoughts and discussion and revision and an eye for balance, impact, etc. Way to go!

And, hey, look up in the corner! They’ve re-instituted the 70s logo after 40 long years in exile. I entirely endorse that choice, and I feel almost moved by it. It’s incredibly rare for a brand to simply bring back something old: not self-consciously milk it for nostalgia, or make a big defensive show of “updating” it, just put it back to work because it was perfectly good and still is. Taste is not actually a forward march, and it’s okay to acknowledge that! Wow! What a great feeling.

[Edit: Oh, I guess that logo had still been hanging out on the spine this whole time. I forgot about that. Okay, nevermind. Not a Christmas miracle after all.]

As for the cover: the A in the title becoming the A on Hester’s chest is such a natural conceit that I’m surprised I’ve never seen it done before, so kudos to Kaitlin. But then the rest, sigh, is a wishful lie. That The Scarlet Letter is actually primitivo brutale, an ominous crayon drawing by a child who saw a Babadook. We live in a bipolar time where our entertainments are alternately primal horrors or infinite digital escapes. Nobody cares about mere passion anymore; nobody even really believes in the possibility. Everything’s either the fucking red pill or the blue pill. The Scarlet Letter probably falls on the dark side of center, right? So hooray, that’s a green light: go ahead and make it be a demon-scratched totem from a pre-civilized culture!

(Probably the actual idea is supposed to be that 17th-century America was a rough-hewn society, and that the novel is about the uneasy relationship between human ideals and the untamed moral wilderness. But look at those faceless silhouettes! Look at the corroded text! I’m not imagining this.)


Meanwhile it turns out that Animal Farm is chick lit! Who knew? Adorbs.

Of course, Kaitlin had her reasons. Like I said, I have to grant these covers their professionalism. But the game is unabashedly about selling pigs in pokes; it really doesn’t matter what’s actually between the covers, or whether the buyer wants it: the poke is the product. And the customer basically knows it! We enter this contract willingly.

It’s like the old saying: “a book sucks but not gonna lie its cover lowkey slaps.”

August 19, 2021

Disney Canon #59: Raya and the Last Dragon (2021)

[The home screening of this 107-minute movie was paused (at approximately the 60 minute mark) for a food delivery and bathroom break. It became apparent that there was a general desire to do some mid-movie venting, which was duly recorded:]

ADAM It’s just dumb bits of other movies.

BROOM It’s worse than that.

BETH It is… [sigh].

ADAM It’s like a little bit of Indiana Jones, and a little bit of Mad Max

BETH Yeah, and it’s a little bit The Fast and the Furious

ADAM And then just horcruxes.

BETH Ha, yes, horcruxes.

BROOM It’s just empty! I haven’t had a single feeling.

BETH I’ve only felt angry.

BROOM I mean a story feeling, I haven’t had a feeling about anything that’s going on. It’s just video game stuff, on and on and on.

ADAM Yes, it’s video game stuff, that’s right.

BROOM And it’s clear where we’re going with this, that the themes are trust and political detente, or whatever, and that those have been applied to the video-game-stuff machine that churns this shit out.

ADAM Remember when the theme of Wreck-It Ralph was, like… what was the theme of Wreck-It Ralph?

BETH The end was a zillion Ralphs…

BROOM Guys, the movie you’re thinking of is Ralph Breaks the Internet. Look, this is better than Ralph Breaks the Internet. I get how someone who just wants to play video games and watch anime could be like “now I’ll watch Raya and the Last Dragon.” It’s sort of coherent as that.

ADAM Well, I think that the bug thing is very cute.

BETH I agree. I do like that bug thing, but I hate everything else.

BROOM “The bug thing” is the armadillo thing?

BETH Yeah, that started out little. That was a good gag.

ADAM And I think that the baby and the monkeys are cute.

BETH Meh.

BROOM Look, I think that the video game stuff is better than the video game stuff we’ve seen in other movies. It’s sort of diverting in a way that some others aren’t. It just hurts my heart that this is a Disney movie. If it was just some stupid animated movie from some other studio, I’d think “well, this is what they’re making — fine.” But it hurts as a Disney movie.

BETH Yes.

ADAM Yeah, when she said “all we have to do is get the five gem pieces,” I was like [long groan of tedium].

BETH It’s making me sad that kids are watching this. It doesn’t have a “seedy worldview” exactly, but it’s sort of…

BROOM Yeah, we need another word than “seedy” to represent the threat to the human spirit posed by contemporary culture. It’s not seediness, it’s… synthetic-ness.

BETH Vapidness?

BROOM It’s knowing how to mold your Instagram persona more than you know how to be a person. That really is a threat to kids today. The movie has all of its surfaces in order, but it hasn’t had had a single actual joke that it actually made up. It’s just doing attitude stuff. When the Talon girl shows up in the treasure room, and Awkwafina says “I get the sense that you’re not besties” or something like that — they thought that was a joke! They thought that was a comic moment. But it’s just a reflexive tic.

BETH The whole vibe of it is “this is how culture is now, you use these shorthand ways of talking and joking.”

BROOM I was angry right away, when in the prologue sequence the girls are getting to know each other and playing “would you prefer this or that” and she says something like “oh that, all day.” I don’t remember what exactly, but they were trying hard to sound like… billenials? What do you call Generation Z kids?

BETH Kids today!

BROOM And I thought, “if this is how they’re doing character in this movie, that hurts.” But then she turned out to be a villain! And I thought “oh, I see, it’s showing that that was shallow, it’s not how people really connect.” So then I was holding out hope for a little while.

BETH No, the whole thing is that.

BROOM Well, it’s both. I think they agreed that was shallow, but they don’t actually know anything other than shallow, so they ran out of ideas after that.

BETH I feel like the backgrounds are more meaningful than the characters. I mean, this is so beautiful to look at, in terms of CGI backgrounds. It’s gorgeously rendered.

ADAM It was clear that there was a problem when the very first thing that the movie did was, like, “now a bunch of backstory!: [insistent babble].”

BROOM Oh yeah, that backstory was messed up. It’s that third-generation concept of myth, filtered down. Their level of understanding of myth is that they saw The Lion King.

BETH Other Disney movies, yeah.

BROOM It’s like post-apocalyptic culture where they’ve told the story of “Disney Movies” to each other for years, and this is the form it takes now. This a retelling of the myth of “Disney,” not some deep human myth, just “Disney as myth,” told through the language of people who play a lot of video games. And have seen some anime.

BETH Guys, I hate it.

[The venting session comes to a close and the screening is resumed. 40 minutes later, it is done:]

BROOM [offers the Kumandran gesture of greeting]

ADAM All of this was, I’m sure, carefully ethnographically accurate, so that’s probably offensive, that you just did that.

BROOM Carefully ethnographically accurate to what?

BETH The Mayans.

ADAM No, it was to, like, southeast Asia.

BETH Right.

BROOM Well, where was Kumandra supposed to be? It was, like, Thai-Burmese-Vietnamese-Indonesian…

ADAM It was all southeast Asia, and I read that during production they were very careful to consult all the myths of the people of the region, and all the voice actors were Asian-American…

BETH I did see that all the voice actors were… appropriate… but what about the dialogue and the script?

ADAM I will say that the second half, after we resumed… like, the return of life sequence, which is in all Disney movies: at least it was exuberant. I was persuaded. Not that it redeemed the movie, but it was very nice to see all the water coming back and all the people coming back to life, and a lengthy sequence of people hugging. All that was cathartic.

BETH Yes. I liked that they all got turned to stone, and then unfrozen by the rain, and hugged.

BROOM I’m willing to say that I found the second half easier to watch, more palatable overall than the first half.

ADAM Yeah, once they got all the business out of the way.

BROOM Right, then it was the story, and you got to actually watch the story instead of just the treasure hunt.

ADAM But the politics were terrible. This was the worst kind of George Bush liberalism, like, “if we just approach with open hearts, everyone will be with us” kind of nonsense.

BETH You just give them the right gift, and you’re in.

BROOM Well, it’s complicated. The movie made fun of the naivete of that, when they showed the hypothetical approaches. In the hypothetical she absurdly says “ooh! a present? now I’m your friend!” And then indeed in the scene when they actually do it, things fall apart and they end up shooting the dragon. So they’ve established that it’s naive to just do that. But then they still have to come around and have a message of trust in the end. So it ends up being something like, “if you trust someone all the way to the point where you actually die, then the trust will pay off.”

BETH Yeah.

ADAM That’s fair, but… I don’t know, man.

BROOM I don’t know if that’s a message. How are you supposed to apply that in life?

ADAM That’s some truth and reconciliation stuff.

BETH The message is also “how you imagine things will go is not how they go.” I kept thinking, “what is the right age of kids for this movie?” It’s pretty scary! That purple ether stuff that’s coming to get you. I don’t feel like my niece and nephew, who are 9 and 7, are old enough for this movie. Maybe they’re naive for their ages, but it just seemed too intense.

ADAM Yeah, that purple goo is pretty scary. It seemed like the movie was going out of its way to not have a villain. I get that Disney villains are problematic, but without a villain the story doesn’t really exist. The formless goo isn’t a villain, it’s just a thing. And Namaari and her mom, they’re not really villains.

BROOM They were certainly antagonists.

ADAM Yeah, but they didn’t have any personality, because they were too afraid to make them larger than life. It could have used, like, an Ursula.

BROOM But that’s the message: questioning distrust, rather than being invested in an “us-vs.-them” structure. That’s a positive message. And the issues facing the world today are these kinds of impersonal problems. If the purple goo represents climate change, some kind of problem that we just need to come together and work on, that seems like a genuinely worthwhile kind of message to put across. But you need to be able to narrativize it. You need to figure out what that really means. And like I said last time about Frozen 2, to have everything be in terms of the logic of screen magic, where this magic does this magic to that magic, but then the magic is dying, but we have the gem that makes the magic magic again… the metaphor runs out.

ADAM Yeah.

BROOM I respect that they tried to have no bad guy, and have it be about trusting the person who seems like a bad guy. That seems healthy. I just don’t know how to get all the way to a movie that makes sense, from there.

ADAM Yeah, I don’t mean to say that they needed a bad guy because you have to have a bad guy; I’m saying I think that the problem with the narrative was that there were no characters other than Raya, kind of.

BETH And Sisu.

ADAM There wasn’t really a villain in the first Frozen, but Elsa was —

BROOM Yes there was! There was that awful prince who tricked them.

ADAM Oh, that’s true, but he wasn’t really the main villain. The main villain was “Elsa, but she’s really good, she’s just misguided and extremely emotional.”

BETH That feels complex, and like a story.

ADAM Exactly.

BETH This was, yeah, really a drag.

ADAM So why did the dragons all come back the second time?

BETH Right! Why didn’t it work the first time, when it apparently worked for every other creature?

ADAM And why was Sisu’s stab wound healed?

BROOM The dragons all came together and used their dragon magic to bring her back, which is a separate case of reincarnation.

BETH But that ball existed. When that ball was just hanging out in the room, why weren’t the other dragons okay?

ADAM Yeah.

BROOM That’s right, for five hundred years it didn’t help them.

BETH That doesn’t make sense.

ADAM None of it made any sense. Yeah.

BROOM It is striking that this is a Disney movie where the magic is so strong that you get your dad back. I don’t think we’ve ever seen that before. A new generation got their hands on the Disney myth, and they told it this weird way.

ADAM Well, she didn’t get her mom back.

BROOM What “mom”? What are you talking about?

BETH Does she even have a mom?

ADAM Her mom is not mentioned.

BETH If you’re only working from within Disney architecture, that seems like a really new idea. And it seems like that’s how this all was formed: they were only registering other Disney movies. It felt like it had no sense of history in a real way.

BROOM Yes, it’s for kids who don’t have any sense of the real. But the really sad thing is it felt like it was by them.

BETH Yes, this is the thought I was having. There’s that Mission: Impossible stuff in it, and I’m like, “do you guys even know what that is? Have you seen Mission: Impossible, or are you just riffing on the riff — like, the Simpsons version of it? or something after that?” It just seemed so far removed from the thing they were actually referencing. But they knew that there was a thing to reference.

BROOM Which was the Mission: Impossible reference?

BETH When they were sneaking around; it was the baby and the monkeys. The soundtrack did a riff on the Mission: Impossible thing.

ADAM I wonder if the problem is just a big loaded corporate culture, and disempowered writers, and everything has to be done by committee.

BETH Yes. This is another thing I was thinking: this is like a workshop, like a grad school or an Iowa Writers’ Workshop kind of situation, where the narrative is watered down by everyone saying “well I don’t know about this,” “well, I don’t know about this.” Piece by piece it gets dismantled.

ADAM Yeah. “Well, would the Kumandran people really do that?”

BETH Right, everyone’s gonna have a problem with something, so the writers say “okay, so I’ll address that, and I’ll address this, and I’ll address this,” and all of a sudden it’s the most bland version it can be.

BROOM You’re right, and I should keep that in mind, when I’m dispirited by this humor that’s not really humor. Instead of imagining the writers as clueless ingrown people, I should imagine that they’re just in a situation where they’re not confident and they’re not comfortable.

BETH Or they’re just too young to stand up to executives. They might be confident, but they might just think “okay, I can’t win this, because the guy who has the money is telling me to do this other thing.”

ADAM Which has been a Hollywood problem forever. I mean, there have been periods where Disney has had very strong narrative personality, because somebody was in charge. It’s a shame John Lasseter was so huggy, because he wouldn’t have been bossed around like this, I don’t think.

BROOM Rest assured, none of the people who worked on this movie hug anyone, ever.

BETH No no, they do. Some of them do. Some of them are fat, and they hug people. That’s my guess.

BROOM You think some of the people who worked on this movie are fat?

BETH … Yeah.

ADAM Did you say “bad” or “fat”?

BETH Fat.

BROOM And those are so different, ADAM, how dare you. So is this the most lesbian movie they’ve ever made?

BETH Yes!

ADAM Yeah!

BETH Yes! Like, was every main character a lesbian? Maybe!

ADAM You know that I’m always here for the coded LGBT themes in these movies, but it wasn’t really that coded.

BETH It wasn’t coded, it was just blatant! They were all lesbians. All of them!

BROOM Especially the Sisu-Raya relationship, where she’s like “she’s my girl!” I don’t understand what Sisu was other than “your lesbian girlfriend.”

ADAM Sisu was her wacky best friend…

BROOM They didn’t have a wacky best friend rapport. But they did kind of have a lesbian couple rapport.

ADAM But Raya and Namaari…

BETH Those two were so into each other. I felt like there was a strong sexual subtext to that.

BROOM Oh yeah. They were fanfic-bait.

BETH Yeah. There was more going on.

ADAM “Come at me, Princess Undercut.” There were basically no males to speak of in the movie anyway, other than the oafish Spine.

BETH Yeah, they made Namaari as masculine as possible, to serve as that foil.

ADAM I liked the dragon and the baby and the monkeys, but they did feel kind of ripped off from Spirited Away.

BROOM I say “boo” to the baby and the monkeys.

BETH I did not like them.

BROOM Someone said “let’s do a baby and monkeys,” and then they managed to make them neither cute nor interestingly uncute, it was just “a baby and some monkeys” in the movie. I never wanted to see them.

ADAM Yeah, I liked them at the beginning when they were con artists, but not when they became her friends.

BROOM So back to the theming: I finally understood the scheme right after we turned it back on again. “I see, she’s collecting one representative from each of these regions, but they’re all underdog people. They’re not the big chieftain, they’re just ordinary folks, and those are the people you can develop a trust relationship with, even if you distrust them a little bit. But it’s more fun, it’s like a gang, hanging out, and that’s how trust is built.”

BETH It had this Ocean’s Eleven feel to it. You’re a ragtag gang.

BROOM Yes, exactly. Misfits. Though the Hun guy was the chieftain of his tribe. But then everything they did to develop their relationship on that boat, there were no actual characters there, so it was just schematic.

ADAM “You threw shrimp at me again!”

BROOM Yeah! You already did that! You threw shrimp in the previous scene, and it wasn’t funny then either. There wasn’t a single laugh in this movie.

BETH There were no laughs. I think they don’t know how to develop characters. Or this team didn’t.

ADAM Even the kid. “Yo! I make some spicy food! Have some of my spicy food!”

BROOM Right. And at one point she says “Captain Pop and Lock” and I thought “Oh, is dancing his thing? I didn’t pick up on that.” He was definitely doing weird moves, but I didn’t really get what it was supposed to be.

BETH I don’t know why this bothered me, but the idea that they would talk with references that we know now was really bothering me. I just wanted some kind of nod to it being “a long time ago.”

BROOM Yeah, when that Attila the Hun guy said “I can’t wait to see the joytastic sight of my village.” What??

BETH Yeah, I saw you react to that.

BROOM Did they not have any separation between characters, that different people would speak different ways?

ADAM I think Robin Williams’ performance in Aladdin kind of poisoned the well.

BROOM Because it was out of period?

ADAM I don’t really think that, but I remember how exhilarating I found it. Like, “Oh! Can he really do that? Can he really become Arnold Schwarzenegger? Or Arsenio Hall?” But Robin Williams was very funny, so it kind of worked. Whereas… ugh.

BROOM Well, other than “pop and lock,” which, yes, is a specific reference but still sort of general… but what else did they do? Like, they didn’t do Arsenio Hall in this movie, right?

BETH No, but all of the jokes were very “of now,” you know? They didn’t reference TikTok or anything, but it felt like it was made by people who are on TikTok.

BROOM Oh yeah. It was made for TikTok. And I think it’s a corporate calculation that makes it this way. I think they want to be speaking “the language of the kids.” To a fault.

BETH Right. When did that problem become a problem?

BROOM I was thinking: we just shrug at stupid stuff in The Sword in the Stone, because it’s not our childhoods and it’s not our adulthoods to protect. If we’d been born in 1910 and then we saw the stupid Sword in the Stone in middle age, would we have said “what are they doing??”

BETH If we’d been born in 1920, BROOM. Let’s be realistic.

BROOM Okay, if we’re born in 1920 and we’re 40 in 1960…

BETH Sword in the Stone is ’63, right?

BROOM Oh, okay, I’d forgotten what year it was.

BETH So I’m saying, yes, were there jokes that we would have been pissed off at?

BROOM Was The Sword in the Stone as panderingly out of touch with anything more important than just “the times”?

BETH “The kids of today.”

BROOM I want to think that it wasn’t, that it was still in touch with something a little more lasting. But I’m not 100% sure.

BETH No, I do think that comedy changed in the past 20 years. Disney focused more on relating to topicality.

BROOM It’s so formulaic. I have this feeling about that site “TV Tropes”: I remember originally being thrilled that it existed, because I had always had a fantasy in the back of my head — I remember we talked about this stuff in college sometimes, ADAM — like, “if there was a list of every time ever that, say, eyes in a spooky portrait moved, that would be so interesting.” That you could go back and track something like that. And when people on the internet started actually assembling the entire history of eyes in a portrait moving, that seemed exciting to me. But it has come to embody this mindset that the generation now has, which is that everything fundamentally is just an instance of a category, and that’s the best it can aspire to be. That all comedy is… like the old joke about people in the prison yelling “number 7!” “number 12!” because they don’t need to tell the jokes anymore, because they’ve all memorized them. It’s just that! They just say these lines to each other, and I get creeped out thinking “is an 18-year-old laughing when they see this?” It’s just attitudes, attitude 4 and attitude 10, and it’s all prepackaged. It’s depressing.

BETH It’s never an 18-year-old, it’s a 13-year-old.

BROOM Is it?

BETH Yeah, because what 18-year-old is watching Raya?

BROOM All of them!

BETH No! What are you talking about?

BROOM Who’s on TikTok? 13-year-olds?

ADAM 9-year-olds and 42-year-olds.

BROOM What are 18-year-olds doing?

BETH 18-year-olds are on TikTok for sure, but they’re too cool to watch Raya. Come on.

ADAM Yeah.

BROOM What do cool kids watch these days? I thought that culture has become infantilized and commodified to that degree.

BETH Cool kids don’t watch movies, they just watch things that last for 90 seconds.

BROOM All right. Well, it’s bad for 13-year-olds too. It’s bad for 6-year-olds.

BETH It’s bad for everybody. This movie sucks. If I were Roger Ebert I would give it thumbs down.

ADAM I don’t know, man! [aside to MARK] No, we watched it on the TV, and I’m talking to BROOM and BETH on my phone.

BROOM What did you think of it, MARK?

ADAM Yeah, MARK, what did you think?

MARK Um, I thought that the beginning was really special, but then it was just, like, a druggy hysteria.

ADAM No, no, no, you’re stuck in the past.

MARK I’m still scarred by it.

BETH He’s still scarred by Yellow Submarine.

ADAM No, no, it’s not that. I wish it was that!

MARK The Meanies!

ADAM Don’t you remember how exhilarating it was when Tiny Toons debuted? I loved ‘tude when I was like 9.

BETH Right, yes. When we were 12, or whatever, that sort of thing was fun. But this is different! It feels so stale.

ADAM This is just poorly executed and formulaic.

BROOM Yeah, if you go back 30 years to stuff when we were 12, that’s when it was a radical idea, in kid culture, that you could defy your own conventions. Kids learn conventions, and then something breaks them and they think “oh! You can do that? You can make that reference?” Whereas now we’ve come all the way around to where the conventions are that kind of chatter. The defiance now would be representing emotions that kids have never seen represented before. This didn’t once break out of its habits to show a 7-year-old something they haven’t seen. But, okay, I know: everything is someone’s first time seeing it. So maybe that’s it: kid culture doesn’t need to have original thoughts because kids have never seen anything before.

BETH I mean, think about how much Hanna-Barbera you watched that was bullshit.

BROOM But we knew it was bullshit.

BETH Yeah.

ADAM But I watched so much of it. I wonder what Madeline thinks, because she’s exposed to kids’ media all the time.

BETH I’d be interested to hear.

ADAM Madeline, if you’re reading this, let us know what you think in the comments.

BROOM BETH, you don’t happen to know what your niece and nephew thought of this, do you? Do you know if they saw it?

BETH I don’t think they watched it. They’d be too scared. People turn to stone. My nephew is very scared of stuff. He doesn’t like anyone dying in anything.

BROOM Yeah, it was super creepy. That’s the kind of stuff that scared me the most as a kid, thinking about the physical reality of horrific magical things, like those people melting…

BETH Just the dad getting frozen and being frozen indefinitely! That’s enough.

ADAM What about the baby stoically accepting its fate and hugging her leg, and then becoming petrified?

BROOM Yeah, I would have fixated on that as a kid, and thought, “how does it work? and how does it feel? and what is inside those purple blobs that does it?” And why do the purple blobs do it? They aren’t eating the people.

BETH Yeah, it’s very Coronavirus-y.

ADAM It’s made of human discord, BROOM.

BROOM It is!

ADAM That’s what they said.

BROOM Yeah, they said they’re like anti-dragons.

BETH But how are kids supposed to pick up on that? Like… every Disney movie has to have some positive message, right? Do you think they start with it? Do you think they start with “okay, what’s the message this is going to have?”

BROOM I think in this case they did. Well, I think the core elements here were “dragons,” “southeast Asia,” “women,” “Bechdel test.” And then on the other side, “trust: not good-guy vs. bad-guy, but everyone, and their fears of each other, vs. impersonal threat.” They had that, and then they just chewed on it for however many years, to build this non-story out of it. But it was a pretty good video game, as video games go. All the rooms looked cool.

BETH The rooms were very cool.

BROOM When they rolled around on that armadillo pillbug, it looked cool.

BETH Yes, yes. I don’t think they have speaking down very well. I feel like old animation does better with mouths.

ADAM I felt bad for the armadillo pillbug, because it never got to eat or make its own choices, really. It occasionally got to secretly eat but that’s no way to live.

BROOM That’s been a character for a long time in movies, like Herbie the Love Bug: your beloved car, and it sort of smiles. With this one it was weird that at first it seemed like it might be a person, but then it grew up to just be a car.

ADAM Should we read the review?

BROOM Yeah.

[we read the New York Times review]

MARK So wait, it sounds like people didn’t like it? Or they did like it?

ADAM No, we didn’t.

BETH We did not like it.

MARK You were like, “you’re gonna like it.” I was like, “no, I’m not gonna like it.”

BROOM I mean, you might have liked it.

BETH No, you made the right choice.

[we proceed to read about Disney’s Encanto, currently scheduled for release November 24, 2021]

May 27, 2021

Jabberwocky

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

The first stanza of Jabberwocky stands apart from the rest of the poem. It’s distinctly more opaque — it contains eleven invented words where the other stanzas have no more than four or five — and it has a separate history from the rest: Lewis Carroll originally wrote it as a standalone bit of whimsy, years before the Alice books, and “published” it in a homemade magazine that he produced for the amusement of his family. In this form it was already accompanied by absurdist glosses of the made-up words, which he elaborated and updated in Through the Looking-Glass years later.

It seems like whenever anyone raises the question of what these words actually mean, no matter how academic and serious-minded the context, Carroll’s tongue-in-cheek glosses — which are very clearly intended to be ridiculous — are generally offered deadpan (in the manner of nerds who take pleasure in repeating “funny” things they’ve memorized because they think it constitutes participation in the comedy). I’ve never seen a source that attempts to correctly parse the stanza. But I have long believed this to be possible, and after many years I find myself in the mood to put this here for posterity.


My thesis, of which I have become fairly convinced, is that the stanza is meant to be recognizable as conventional scene-painting of efflorescent springtime, mentioning successively fauna, flora, and birdsong. The conceit is that this is archaic Middle English, so a modernized respelling should be possible. Consider, say:

‘Twas Maytide, and the lissome roe
Did graze and gambol in the mead
All rosy were the hellebore
And the song thrush gave call.

This at least is what I find jotted in my iPhone notes from a few months ago. I’ve toyed at making a translation-in-kind like this for a long time, and this was my most recent pass at it; it’ll do for posterity purposes.

“Maytide” is the worst of it: “brillig” actually probably means “sunny” (re: “bright” and “brilliant”), but there’s no suitably antique two-syllable word. (“Blazy” could work but only very poorly.)

The relation of “gimble” to “gambol” is the linchpin; it is particularly and specifically convincing to me. From this, the rest falls into place. “Wabe” must be a field and “tove” must be some sort of creature capable of gamboling; if we take “slithy” to be, indeed, related to “lithe” (and perhaps “slender”) then deer seems likeliest. “Gyre” as paired counterpart to “gimble” must be either synonym (i.e. “prance and gambol”) or contrast, as I have it here.

“Outgrabe” is clearly the past participle of a verb indicating vocalization; in this context it must be birdcall. “Song thrush” above is just a rough approximation (though “thrush” does satisfactorily preserve most of the phonemes of “raths”). It is unclear to me whether “mome” is part of a two-word name (as in “the song thrush”) or is a separable adjective (i.e. “the red robin.”)

By process of elimination within the overall cliché, the remaining clause, “all mimsy were the borogoves,” must refer to the plant kingdom, and this fits nicely, since the adverbial use of “all” in this construction is generally associated with expressions of sweet abundance or flowering. “Hellebore” is fun because it preserves “bor,” but I doubt it’s specifically what’s intended. “Groves” might also be relevant.

The possibility that “mimsy” and “mome” are deliberately linked in make-believe etymology, and perhaps refer to pink and red respectively, does appeal to me.

I do wonder why “toves” and “raths” are given as plural; it seems to me that the characteristically archaic construction for this sort of scene-setting would speak of, say, “the stag” and “the hare” etc., in the singular. It may just be that Carroll decided the singular was too confusing when the words are all made-up, and that the resulting ambiguity was unhelpful to the effect. (Then again maybe it didn’t occur to him at all. Or maybe I’m wrong about all of it.)


I did some very light searching to see if I could perhaps find a specific model for any of these phrases, or even for the stanza as a whole. I didn’t find any smoking guns, but I was rather struck by the following. Though I have no idea whether this text was known to Carroll — nor do I have the patience to do the real research necessary to investigate such matters — it at least feels apropos. Try reading this and then immediately reading Carroll’s stanza. The sense of parodic reference is strong and, I think, clarifying.

This comes from a fairly well known work that might well have held interest for Carroll, The Morall Fabillis of Esope the Phrygian by Robert Henryson (fl. c. 1460-1500). The language is Middle Scots.

In middis of June, that joly sweit seasoun,
Quhen that fair Phebus with his bemis bricht
Had dryit up the dew fra daill and doun,
And all the land maid with his bemis licht,
In ane mornyng betuix mid day and nicht
I rais and put all sleuth and sleip asyde,
And to ane wod I went allone but gyde.

Sweit wes the smell off flouris quhyte and reid,
The noyes off birdis richt delitious,
The bewis braid blomit abone my heid,
The ground growand with gers gratious;
Off all plesance that place wes plenteous,
With sweit odouris and birdis harmony;
The morning myld, my mirth wes mair for thy.

The rosis reid arrayit rone and ryce,
The prymeros and the purpour viola;
To heir it wes ane poynt off paradice,
Sic mirth the mavis and the merle couth ma;
The blossummis blythe brak up on bank and bra;
The smell off herbis and the fowlis cry,
Contending quha suld have the victory.

The fairly shallow reasons why these particular stanzas happened to catch my eye: the mention of “bemis bricht” reminds me of “brillig,” and “gyde” superficially resembles “gyre.” The phrase that first snagged my attention was “Sic mirth the mavis and the merle couth ma,” which has a very similar cadence to “all mimsy were the borogoves and the mome raths outgrabe.” (Though if correctly parsed, the syntax is actually entirely different; the Henryson is equivalent to “Such mirth the thrush and the blackbird could make.”)

So, yes, there’s really very little in common here. All the same, I’m pasting it into this scrapbook of my thought process.


In its original homegrown publication, Carroll’s mock exegesis ends by calling the stanza “an obscure, but yet deeply-affecting, relic of ancient Poetry.” This phrase, “relic of ancient poetry,” would seem to refer to a well-known and influential collection, “Reliques of Ancient Poetry” by Thomas Percy, which is a compendium of exactly the sort of stuff Carroll is parodying, and probably is in fact the book Alice finds in the looking-glass house, in which she reads “Jabberwocky.”

I browsed through the online edition looking for a model for the “’twas brillig” stanza, but didn’t find anything obvious. (There’s some Henryson in the collection, but not the passage above.)

However I did find some stuff that seems likely to have influenced the monster-hunting narrative that forms the bulk of Jabberwocky:

Than was he glad without fayle,
And rested a whyle for his avayle;
And dranke of that water his fyll;
And then he lepte out, with good wyll,
And with Morglay his brande
He assayled the dragon, I understande:
On the dragon he smote so faste,
Where that he hit the scales braste:
The dragon then faynted sore,
And cast a galon and more
Out of his mouthe of venim strong,
And on syr Bevis he it flong:
It was venymous y-wis.

This “rested a whyle” rings the bell of “stood awhile in thought” from Carroll, and falls at exactly the same place dramatically, in the calm before the storm of dragon-battle. These lines come from ballad of Bevis of Hampton, which seems as likely as anything to have been a model for Jabberwocky. Yet in all of google books I find nobody even mentioning them both in the same text. Indeed, I only find one person who even identifies the link to “Percy’s Reliques” — and it’s someone writing on the Reliques who mentions Carroll in passing, rather than the other way around.

Most authorities just seem to say that Jabberwocky is a parody of Beowulf, I assume because they’ve heard of Beowulf. Come on, people! Haven’t academics and obsessives been picking over this territory obsessively for 150 years? What have they been up to, if not this?

And my goodness, look at this! For $300 Lewis Carroll’s own personal copy of the Reliques can be yours???!!!???!!! Gosh, I wonder if there are any telling pencil marks in there!!

Seriously, where is everybody???


One more thing. Ever since I was a kid I’ve wanted to know: why give a poem about a creature called “the Jabberwock” the title “JabberwockY,” with a Y appended? This must be in imitation of some specific linguistic model, but I am unable to identify it. “Jabberwockiad” I would at least recognize. Unfortunately the Jabberwocky academic establishment has once again thoroughly failed me.

February 24, 2021

“Alt-Disney” #2: Yellow Submarine (1968)

BROOM So I’m getting the impression that in the ADAM and MARK household, this was a contentious selection.

ADAM Why don’t we let MARK have the opening word?

MARK It wasn’t really a movie. I was imagining more of a story-driven movie, not a compilation of music videos loosely brought together by a theme unrelated to the songs.

BROOM That was your comment when we paused at the 40 minute mark. Do you stand by it, now that we’ve seen to the end?

MARK I mean, I don’t think the end makes the middle make sense, but the beginning and the end are a complete story, yes.

BROOM My feeling about this movie when I was a kid — and I think still — is that the music video stuff is the coolest part, and I get bored when they’re just telling the story, which seems like it’s an afternoon cartoon story.

BETH Yes.

ADAM Which part do you think is the afternoon cartoon story? Like, the parts when they’re talking to each other?

BETH The Blue Meanies!

BROOM The war with the Blue Meanies. Why do we have to watch a whole war with the Blue Meanies? I get bored of that.

ADAM Really? Oh. See, I think that the Blue Meanies themselves are… maybe the scariest thing that I’ve ever seen in my whole life.

BROOM [breaks out in laughter]

ADAM I’m serious! Like, they don’t just fill with you dread?

BROOM They’re creepy, but they make them deliberately absurd, so “the scariest thing you’ve ever seen in your whole life” is… strong! Tell me more.

BETH I can see that, though. I didn’t see this when I was a kid. But I can imagine —

ADAM This is, like, the scariest and most realistic depiction of Nazis I’ve ever seen. The inexorable men who come and drop apples on you? That’s so scary! Jesus Christ! Or the shoes that open up and they have, like, stormtroopers in them? The blue dogs howling… aaaah! I don’t know, it’s just really upsetting.

MARK You find apples upsetting?

ADAM They walk up and you can’t escape them, and they just cover you in apples!

BROOM Paralyzing, petrifying apples. I remember as a kid finding the glove creepy. The amount of face the glove has and doesn’t have.

BETH The glove is creepy.

ADAM The glove is really scary. I mean, I don’t know if I thought of them as Nazis when I was a kid. When one is like “Where can we go?” and the other is like “Argentina!” I thought that was just a funny non sequitur. But when you think about it now, from the perspective of Britain in 1968, that’s what they are. And they’re really scary!

MARK Do Nazis really lend anything else to the movie that explicitly?

ADAM I mean, how far apart was 1945 to 1968? It was the same difference as we are to 1997. It would be very much on your mind, I think!

BROOM I mean, certainly as a kid I thought almost everything was non sequitur, I didn’t understand any of the references. And yeah, now I understand “Argentina” and “tomorrow the world” and all of that, as references, but still… I don’t know. This is one of the movies that’s hardest for me to see through adult eyes. Because of the way it’s made: it wants you to watch it like you’re in a psychedelic regression. But I still take the Blue Meanies to be “Blue Meaniesbecause they represent all greedy hostile bad-guy military forces ever. The Nazi references are just asides, because they were the most recent iteration of that.

ADAM I’m not saying that they’re literally Nazis. But they’re as scary as Nazis are, you know.

BROOM You don’t think that we should read this as a specific allegory where Pepperland is Europe, or England, and the Blue Meanies are Nazis, do you?

ADAM No, I’m not saying that.

MARK All we needed was song! That’s how we won World War II: song!

ADAM I’m not saying that, but it feels horrible and high-stakes, in the way that The Diary of Anne Frank does. It’s not, like, Ursula the sea-witch. It’s not possible for me to see this apart from the way it struck me as a child.

BROOM How did it strike you as a child?

ADAM It was intensely frightening! I was amazed that they let me watch this!

BETH How many times did you see it as a kid?

ADAM Like, thirty?

BROOM Did you enjoy something about it that kept you coming back to it?

ADAM Obviously I enjoyed it! I mean, it just makes the stakes higher, I don’t necessarily think I had nightmares about the movie.

MARK How does “thirty” rank compared to other childhood movies?

ADAM It’s a lot.

BROOM So this was one of your basic movies. I don’t think I knew that about you.

ADAM There’s parts of it I don’t remember at all.

BROOM The “Hey Bulldog” number at the end was not in the version we grew up with. I find it somewhat annoying, because I’m already done with the movie at that point, and I don’t need another song.

BETH It’s a great song.

BROOM Yeah, it is a good song.

ADAM You’re talking about the song between “All You Need Is Love” and the concluding song?

BROOM Yeah, the one with the player piano and the four-headed dog.

ADAM Yeah, that I didn’t remember. That explains it. But MARK said the same thing: why didn’t this end with “All You Need Is Love”?

BROOM Or at least why doesn’t it end when they let the smoke out of the bubble. I’m willing for that to be the ending. But that final song, “It’s All Too Much” — as a kid I was always like “I don’t care about this song,” and I still feel that way now. That’s not a good song. And it’s embarrassing when they cut to the real Beatles and he says “I can’t get this catchy song out of my head!”

ADAM I didn’t remember the “Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds” sequence, even though I remembered that there was one.

BETH That’s my favorite part, I think. I loved that. I thought was just delightful to watch.

BROOM With the painted frames? I think it’s Fred Astaire clips that they painted over.

BETH Yeah.

ADAM It’s funny, because through the whole middle I felt like “uhhhhhh… get back to the Meanies.”

BETH Oh, I felt the opposite of that. Like, “do we have to go back to the Blue Meanies?”

BROOM Me too. These are just two opposing schools of this movie. For me, the movie is about the succession of seas that are just psychedelic craziness. And then once they get back to Pepperland, it’s like “ugh, we have to have a story now that no one cares about. Pepperland’s not a real place.” I don’t care about Old Fred. But yeah, I love, like, the “Nowhere Man” number. For some reason I really enjoy that.

BETH Yeah, I like “Nowhere Man” too.

BROOM When they go in reverse — in the middle the song turns around, and they end up abandoning the guy in the center. That feels perfect to me.

ADAM You’re not moved at all by the Mayor’s siege of Rohan moment, where he’s playing the violin as the submarine takes off?

BROOM I am moved by that, at the very beginning. I do think the beginning is a compelling use of the Meanies, but once they get back… I don’t know, what do The Beatles have to do with saving this country? What’s “Pepperland” to me? I don’t really know what I’m supposed to care about this story. As a kid I just wanted visuals. Like, the part where they count to 64 with different numbers going by? That’s awesome! It’s so cool that that’s in a movie.

BETH It’s very Sesame Street.

BROOM Yeah, this is like the Sesame-Street-est movie there is. I was raised on the Sesame Street cartoons, so this movie felt like “This is what should be on a screen in front of me, continuously!”

ADAM I was googling the movie when I was in the bathroom, and I found someone in the New York Times in 2019 writing about how his toddler likes this movie, and comparing it to a Sesame Street that’s more honest about its mind-altering influences.

BROOM I mean, I keep using the word “psychedelic,” but I actually don’t approve of that, because it has nothing to do with drugs for a four-year-old to enjoy this. It’s not “psychedelic,” it’s just part of the actual natural state of the human brain, to be interested in patterns and graphic visuals like this. The “Eleanor Rigby” with the photocopies? That’s so cool.

BETH I thought that was really nice as well. And it’s the origin of the Boomerang feature on Instagram.

ADAM I was always a sucker for the effect where there would suddenly be a bit of photography wedged into animation. Like when the Muppets would open the door and there would be a space invaders movie. Every time, I thought that was the coolest thing. It slayed me every time, as a child.

BROOM In fact don’t you think Muppet Babies was taking that from the hall of doors in this movie? Where they open a door and see King Kong and then slam it? And they see a Magritte with a train coming at them?

BETH Yeah, I have to imagine this inspired so many things.

BROOM I think of that hall, with random crap running from door to door when nobody’s looking, as one of the basic images. That’s a touchstone reference for understanding other things. Or later when that monster is making things, and it makes a gas pump, a pyramid, and a necktie. Somehow that’s fundamental, for me. That concept of craziness.

ADAM I was saying to MARK that it was like Rick and Morty.

BROOM The parallel-universe craziness?

ADAM Yeah, particularly that world where Ringo is lost on the gazelle.

BROOM Yeah, the Sea of Monsters. And if this series is about alternatives to Disney, this is so alternative to Disney. Unlike almost anything else on our list, it doesn’t even feel like it bears any relation to Disney. It’s not even anti-Disney, it’s just in a completely different cultural vein. At least as I see it.

BETH It feels very art school.

ADAM Actually, you know what the thing with photorealistic images in animation also feels like to me? Monty Python. And maybe that feels British to me. Because I didn’t know much about what was British, when I was a kid.

BROOM Oh sure, this movie definitely had a big influence on my sense of what was “British,” as a kid. When they’re in Liverpool and it’s all surreal and photocopies of people crying.

ADAM This actually was the first time in my life that I realized that was supposed to be Liverpool, and that it was sort of a depressing black-and-white place.

BROOM Also, I didn’t know much about the Beatles, as a kid, and the way they characterize them here is so strange! If they made a “band goes on an adventure” movie now, they would never make the characters be like this. Where Ringo’s introduced saying “nothing ever happens to me; maybe I’ll kill myself.” That’s so weird! And they spend the whole movie punning.

ADAM A lot of it is mumbling, and you can’t really follow what they’re saying.

BETH I feel like they were characterized by their own in-jokes. Only they knew what they were talking about. And the personalities: you know, Paul is vain… everyone is making fun of each other in a way that no one else can pick up on.

ADAM I agree, it definitely felt like their in-jokes. Though who knows how involved they really were with this movie.

BETH I wondered that.

BROOM Not very at all. Those voices are apparently the voices of, like, some people the animators met at the bar, who they thought sounded a little like the Beatles. Literally.

BETH Seriously?

BROOM Yeah.

BETH That’s funny. That’s a weird thing to know. I didn’t know that. Well then, I wonder what they thought of it. Do you know?

BROOM I think they just felt like “Oh and apparently now there’s a cartoon of us. Typical.” I mean, they were game enough to appear in the movie, but I don’t think they were really on board.

ADAM Ringo Starr is 80.

BETH Yeah, in the time machine part, it only counted up to 2009…

ADAM Yeah, I laughed at that.

BROOM I assume that’s when Paul was 64?

ADAM Paul is 78, so…

BETH So… no.

ADAM Not quite, but.

BROOM I remember when he turned 64, there were some news stories about how he was indeed 64 like in the song. Yeah, I was prepared for that song to make me feel ill, but it didn’t at all! It’s just a cute song. And they count to 64.

BETH Prepared for it to make you feel ill because you’re old?

BROOM You know, “oh my god the Beatles are even older than 64, there’s nothing cute and funny about this, everyone really does age and die.”

BETH Oh, I see.

BROOM But no! I didn’t think any of those things.

BETH They did look super-young, when we saw them at the end.

BROOM I mean, they’re like 26, right? They just weren’t that old, when the Beatles were the Beatles.

ADAM When that scene came on, MARK asked “are they supposed to be attractive?”

BETH [laughs] Well, I thought that too! Not “are they supposed to be,” but just “oh, they’re not as cute as I remember thinking they were.”

MARK My question was: were they publicly understood to be attractive? And it seems like the answer is… unclear?

BETH Paul was thought to be very attractive. And John appealed to arty girls. And I think George and Ringo weren’t talked about much.

ADAM It’s weird though: you don’t actually really associate the Beatles with sex at all, right?

BETH But apparently they were all very… active.

ADAM I’m sure they were!

MARK Shocking.

ADAM But their public image was, like… The Rolling Stones didn’t do a weird kids’ movie, you know.

BETH Right.

ADAM Mick Jagger’s public persona was all about, like…

BETH His sex appeal, right.

ADAM And the Beatles’ were not, as far as I was aware. Yes of course they were getting laid constantly.

BROOM Yes, it’s true that despite being sex symbols they were not specifically sexual in their public personas. But they went through a lot in… I mean, how many years were they the Beatles? Like, seven years? And from the beginning to the end, their look changed a lot. So this is toward the end, all things considered.

BETH Yeah, they only have three more years left in them after this. Which is strange to think about.

BROOM This is when they were already getting shaggy and hippie. I think if you went four years before this, they would have been a lot cuter, by any standard, including Mark’s.

ADAM I always think it’s so weird to listen to early Beatles songs. They sound like Chubby Checker. It just sounds like a totally different planet. You know, good for them, but… it’s weird.

BROOM It’s crazy how short a span of time the whole Beatles adventure is. Like, three years ago now, music was exactly the same as it is now. What has changed? Nothing changed.

ADAM Since 2012?

BROOM Since 2018, I’m saying. But even since 2012, sure: how much has musical style really changed?

ADAM There’s that thing where everything has a hip-hop solo track in it, right? I’m way out of my depth, I can’t talk about musical trends.

MARK I was gonna say.

ADAM I mean, Maroon 5’s been around for a while.

MARK More than seven years!

ADAM That’s what I’m saying!

MARK I remember that from elementary school.

ADAM It’s a lot of fun to play “how young are you” with MARK. Everything is like “oh that was my elementary school graduation song.”

BROOM How long-lived was “let’s imagine that the members of this band live a fantasy life in a fantasy world and that they’re characters in a comic-book reality”? This is not the only instance of it, but I feel like it only lasted from the 60s to the 80s. Does that still ever happen anymore?

BETH Can you give another example of it?

ADAM Wait: are the Monkees a real band, or no? I can never remember.

BETH That’s an interesting question. Yes, they were a real band, but they were invented in LA, to be a TV show.

ADAM They were retconned from the TV show, right?

BETH Yeah. But eventually they wrote their own songs. In the beginning they didn’t.

BROOM I used to watch that show! ADAM, did you watch that?

ADAM I used to watch all kinds of things uncritically and with no context.

BROOM I know! Did you specifically watch The Monkees?

ADAM Yes, totally. They were on Nick At Nite!

BROOM So the Beatles made a couple of movies — Help! is a crazy silly movie that they made — but I feel like…

ADAM I just read on Wikipedia that there was a sequel planned to this movie called Strawberry Fields Forever that had 10 minutes of pioneering computer-animated footage that has never been seen.

BROOM Wow. I had never heard that. Well, now I want to see that! That sounds cool. Anyway, BETH, I guess I was thinking of… well, I know there were video games in the 80s, like bands would make video games of themselves fighting aliens. I think there’s a Journey game.

BETH Okay, sure.

BROOM I just feel like it was sort of a thing that happened for a while there. Wouldn’t bands appear on “Scooby Doo”?

BETH Oh sure, that was a thing. I guess cartoons were just different then. Everything felt more intertwined in the monoculture than it does now.

ADAM Which was the Disney movie that had the Beatles-like band in it? Was that The Black Cauldron?

BROOM In The Jungle Book there are mop-topped vultures.

ADAM Yes, thank you.

BROOM Which is contemporaneous with this, I guess.

ADAM That’s what I was thinking of. But obviously that wasn’t licensed. As we were watching this, MARK said that he would rather see it with Harry Styles.

MARK No, I suggested that his team could probably produce something better than this.

ADAM All right fine: that Harry Styles’ production team should have done this.

BROOM Well that’s what I’m asking, and I certainly don’t know: is that the kind of thing that in any way would be interesting to his producers or his fans, today? Like, “Harry goes on an adventure! Under the sea!”

ADAM We spent the early part of the pandemic watching music videos every Saturday, and the video for Harry Styles’ “Adore You” involves Harry Styles befriending a fish.

BROOM So yeah, in a video it would happen.

ADAM He befriends a fish that becomes progressively larger and larger, and then he has to return it to the sea, and it’s very emotional. And he’s singing “just let me adore you, whoa.” Are you familiar with the song?

BROOM I’m not, but that sounds like a cool video. And I guess that’s what this movie is a precursor to: music videos. And I feel like these are really good videos for most of these songs.

BETH I agree.

ADAM I wish I liked the visual parts in the middle better, but I just wanted to get back to the Blue Meanies.

BROOM My first music was Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, because my parents had two copies of it, so they had an expendable one that I could use on my Fisher Price record player. And I would listen to that album and look at the red cover with all the text on it, and the pictures of the guys in costume. Some of these songs, “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” and “Lucy in the Sky” at least, were on that album. And this movie felt like it corresponded pretty closely and well to the kinds of stuff that would go through my head, listening to music as a very young child. This is what songs look like in your head. So it was always satisfying that way. And I guess MTV picked up at least some of that from here.

ADAM Are we gonna read the New York Times review? Probably not.

BROOM We could, but the connection pauses and delays are confusing me here.

BETH Yeah, every time I say something it seems like I’m interrupting someone else.

BROOM Oh well. Sorry guys.

BETH There’s not that much to say anyhow.

ADAM I agree. I don’t have concerted thoughts about… like, there’s no story to talk about.

MARK I was just about to say: hm, I wonder why you have nothing to talk about?

ADAM We have the characterizations to talk about.

MARK I thought you probably resonated with Jeremy, because he was, like, an outcast that was, like, obnoxious.

ADAM Yeah, MARK asked me that during the movie. He was like “did you identify with Jeremy as a kid?” And I was like “because I was a gay know-it-all?”

BROOM Well, what is with that character? It’s so strange. I mean, I don’t think that is the kind of person that the song “Nowhere Man” is written about. Is it?

BETH I don’t think so either.

MARK Exactly.

BROOM It’s such a weird inclusion, and I didn’t ever have a feeling for it. Other than “yup, this is the part where they meet Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD — I don’t know why.” I still don’t know why.

BETH I think that some —

ADAM I think he’s like—

BETH Sorry. Go ahead.

[12 seconds of silence]

BROOM What’s going on?

ADAM Uh, we’re here.

BROOM This sucks, I’m sorry.

BETH Let’s forget it.

BROOM Like let’s just end the conversation, is that what you’re saying?

BETH Yeah. This is —

BROOM All right. Next time we do this, we will set it up technically better for the conversation part.

ADAM Okay. I’ve said my piece.

BROOM All right. Fair enough.

BETH Thanks, BROOM.

BROOM Thanks for watching the movie, guys.